Martial Arts, HIstory and Evolution

[jtweymo]

I can put in a few cents worth.

Almost all organized Japanese martial arts have undergone serious content and structural changes, between the years 1975 and 1985. These changes were usually extensive, involved structure rearrangement and exclusion of technical content (on some small occassions, additions to content were also included.)

This is true (a matter of public record) from the more elite koryu all the way down to the most modern Gendai martial arts (judo, aikido and karate.) They all modified their contents and structure between 1975 - 1985. Most ryuha of the Gendai schools and about 55% of the koryu did so.

The only thing really surprising is that this occurred on so wide a scale and at the same time. Some explanations of these "renovations" indicate that, in fact, the systems (espec gendai) were still in the formative stages and this wide spread alteration was really just these arts and schools trying to fully emerge as systems.

[disgruntled]

do you think that these renovations were a good thing or not?

[sirdarksol]

Originally Posted by jtweymo

I can put in a few cents worth.

Almost all organized Japanese martial arts have undergone serious content and structural changes, between the years 1975 and 1985. These changes were usually extensive, involved structure rearrangement and exclusion of technical content (on some small occassions, additions to content were also included.)

This is true (a matter of public record) from the more elite koryu all the way down to the most modern Gendai martial arts (judo, aikido and karate.) They all modified their contents and structure between 1975 - 1985. Most ryuha of the Gendai schools and about 55% of the koryu did so.

The only thing really surprising is that this occurred on so wide a scale and at the same time. Some explanations of these "renovations" indicate that, in fact, the systems (espec gendai) were still in the formative stages and this wide spread alteration was really just these arts and schools trying to fully emerge as systems.

These changes started earlier than the 70's. They actually began in the era of the World Wars, when karate was brought en mass to mainland Japan and turned into a sport and exercise meant to improve the physique and comraderie of Japanese soldiers. Thus, Shotokan (which is now one of the biggest branches of karate) was born.

[jtweymo]

Hi ya guys,

disgruntled said: do you think that these renovations were a good thing or not?

Yeah some are. Some ain't. Interesting part is that the experts (Japanese and Western analysts) say that it's actually these artifices still emerging... meaning they haven't reached mature developmental stages yet. That's in the case of the Gendai and some small number of koryu. Point being that they were supposed to be darned fighting systems that already knew how to fight. They really aren't supposed to be 'developing' into systems. At least that's a point that some people have made on the subject.

sirdarksol said:
... These changes started earlier than the 70's. They actually began in the era of the World Wars, ...

Actually that is the point in time the analysts say it started, but the changes themselves were entered into the record beginning about the late 1960's. Somebody decided that these systematic alterations should be recorded as events... but I really dunno why exactly they thought so?

[disgruntled]

Originally Posted by jtweymo

Interesting part is that the experts (Japanese and Western analysts) say that it's actually these artifices still emerging... meaning they haven't reached mature developmental stages yet. That's in the case of the Gendai and some small number of koryu.

this is interesting.... can you elaborate more?

[jtweymo]

Well yeah, it's pretty well recorded in the record (poking around on the internet one can find references to it all.)

Governmental, military and historical analysts say that most of these systems are actually new and just developing over the last 80-125 years. I don't mean that Karate or Judo are, everyone knows when Kodokan and Shotokan were 'founded'. I mean the systems themselves, the systems that Kodokan and Shotokan (Judo and Karate), Aikido as well as many ryuha of Jujutsu, Karate and etc employ and propegate.

They say the systems are new (recently composed.)
They say the contents are new (recently composed.)
They say that few of the extant systems are actually historical fighting arts/systems/techniques/methods.

Maybe this page will help explain it more? (it's from my school of Jujutsu.)

If one considers these remarks and then the common complaint of beginner to intermediate MAists about their own reservations (regarding the reliability of systematic fighting and defense techniques)... it makes a whole lot of sense.

[disgruntled]

hmmm... very interesting. it is great to know that MAs are continuing to evolve. it is the way that it should be. for practical reasons they need to adapt to the times.... i just hope that we never loose knowledge of the old ways either.

[jtweymo]

Yeah,

They are definitely still evolving.

And with quite a brisk pace too!!